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This just in: Markos Moulitsas is an idiot
On the matter of Kathy Sierra, Kos opines that the whole death threats against bloggers thing is overblown whining:
Look, if you blog, and blog about controversial shit, you’ll get idiotic emails. Most of the time, said “death threats” don’t even exist—evidenced by the fact that the crying bloggers and journalists always fail to produce said “death threats”.
I don’t know how things work in the rarefied world of A-List blogging, but let me refer you to comment number 29 here, or comment number 14 here, or comment number 22 here.
Those last two were threats against Zeke, of course. Maybe Markos doesn’t think threats against pets count as real death threats.
In all three cases, I decided the threats weren’t serious or credible, though with the last one it took me a couple hours, ‘cause Zeke was declining and I was upset. But credible or not, they were bonafide death threats.
I got additional death threats due to my writing a column for the Contra Costa Times. It was a garden column. It wound up reprinted, in part, at an odious racist xenophobe website, and several yahoos emailed me to offer to come to my door and make my teeth look more like their mothers’. Sorry, Kos, I didn’t save those emails so that I could “produce” them for you: I foolishly neglected to realize that someone I’d never heard of back then might appoint himself arbiter of whether there really is an eliminationist tendency on the right. Silly me.
I don’t know why Markos has such trouble thinking that people might get actual death threats. The threats came at green activists before the advent of blogging, and that nature of the net makes such threats all the easier. Kos says that “crying bloggers” don’t produce the actual threats to his satisfaction, raising two questions:
1) How do you “produce” a phone call?
2) Did Kos suddenly join law enforcement, granting him the right to access to possible criminal evidence prior to a trial?
Here’s my take. Activists often get death threats when people who support the status quo find those activists effective. Kos does not believe death threats exist, never having seen one. Drawing of the obvious conclusions has been left as an exercise for the reader.
Posted by: Chris Clarke
Note: A database glitch in 2008 ate a bunch of archived comments. Don't be offended if yours isn't here, or confused if the conversation seems disjointed. Thanks!
Kos proved himself to be irrelevant years ago.
By: By Sheelzebub on 2007 04 12
Activists often get death threats when people who support the status quo find those activists effective. Kos does not believe death threats exist, never having seen one. Drawing of the obvious conclusions has been left as an exercise for the reader.
exactly. don’t make waves, and you might forget the water exists.
By: By Nezua Limón Xolagrafik-Jonez on 2007 04 12
Incidentally, I see my last paragraph could reasonably be construed as my implying that you aren’t a real activist if you haven’t even gotten a death threat.
Of course I don’t mean that: that would be silly and bravado-ridden.
I do think, though, that the fact that someone in Kos’ position doesn’t even believe such threats exist says something about whether he’s pushing for any real change. I’ll also note that MB is compiling a list of reactions to this idiocy, some of which, as usual, are far more thoughtful than mine. I encourage you to check it out.
By: By Chris Clarke on 2007 04 12
i’m writing a post. so i wont drop it all here. but it amaaaaazes me that someone who must get SO much email can only produce a vaguish hateful email..i mean vague on the Death THreat. are you kidding? i’ve got mail that makes things very clear. and i am a tiny blog. its what you said. i had the same thought before i read your post and was hearing about it. reading about it, that is.
the reason he is not getting threats is because he is writing as a pretty mainstream dood. okay, i get that. the amazing part is that he can be so sure proclaiming what everyone else gets. whoa.
By: By Nezua Limón Xolagrafik-Jonez on 2007 04 12
I can’t imagine what his motivation or thinking must have been in writing this post at all.
By: By Heraclitus (Jeff) on 2007 04 12
Have I told you lately that I love you?
By: By Amanda Marcotte on 2007 04 12
You know, even when you have the phone and written threats, and someone breaks down your door to get into your house when you’re working, steals a bunch of your underwear and proceeds to leave it on your doorhandle, your windshield at work, things like that, people, including the authorities, often don’t take it seriously. Of course, when the guy then breaks into your house late at night, rapes and tries to strangle, then suffocate you, you’d think they’d kick themselves for not taking it seriously.
Ironically, it’s still your fault. Or so I’ve been told.
By: By MBW on 2007 04 12
How exactly did Kos get to be so popular? Isn’t it supposed to be the folks on the other side who just make stuff up?
By: By Dr. Free-Ride on 2007 04 12
i dunno, maybe kos sees himself as very safe, and that is dandy for him. but to deny that other people get threats—to deny that a woman threatened with rape or death or seeing family members hurt should always ignore the threat because it’s got to be a joke or something—that is both delusional and disparaging to the victim.
By: By kathy a on 2007 04 12
“I foolishly neglected to realize that someone I’d never heard of back then might appoint himself arbiter of whether there really is an eliminationist tendency on the right. Silly me.”
Heh. Foolish blogger.
Nezua, great imagery with the waves and the ocean. It is instructive to think of how many bubbles we can create for ourselves. I do find it a bit hard to believe Kos hasn’t recieved serious threats though… Which makes his post even stranger.
By: By Dan (Fitness) on 2007 04 12
thanks dan.
By: By Nezua Limón Xolagrafik-Jonez on 2007 04 12
On your last para, “Heh. Indeed.” (To the obvious conclusion that Kos has become [always was?] a status quo blogger, not the reachy one that you’re not a real activist until your life and your dog’s life have been threatened.)
By: By The Constructivist on 2007 04 13
Kos’ example of an emailed death threat he received was nothing of the kind. Some loon saying God gives liberals AIDS is nowhere near the equivalent of “I’m gonna rape you, cunt” (paraphrasing, but that about sums up the threats delivered to the blogger he calls a whiner). The guys who threatened to rape her think she’s a whiner too. So I guess Kos and they have that in common (oh my, what else is new in women’s lives?)
I can only imagine how much more awful the experience would have been for that female blogger if she’d ever actually experienced rape or sexual abuse, which many women have. Who knows, maybe she has.
So um, Kos can just stuff it.
By: By Lesley on 2007 04 13
That number 14 response by “American Patriot” was just ... nasty. A threat referencing your “f*cking leftist mouth,” simply for a beautiful piece on how much you love your dog. It wasn’t even political, and it attracted an attack.
Back in the 70s, I got the idea of forming a student union to react to local merchants, who treated students like lepers in our small college town. I got a telephoned death threat after I floated the idea in the local alternative paper.
Years later, when I became a political activist, I insisted the streetside drapes be closed whenever my group met to discuss strategy. I was afraid someone would drive by and ... something. The other members of the group always seemed amused at that, but none of them had ever been threatened.
Death threats really happen. Just because they’ve never happened to YOU doesn’t mean they don’t.
By: By Hank Fox on 2007 04 13
Wait, liberal talk radio show host Alan Berg WAS NOT assassinated in his driveway in Denver by members of the Order in 1984?
Is this Twin Earth, where this shit doesn’t happen? I’m pretty sure I"m on regular Earth, where this shit does happen.
Hate speech incites violence.
—BDL
By: By B. Dagger Lee on 2007 04 13
Here’s my take. Activists often get death threats when people who support the status quo find those activists effective. Kos does not believe death threats exist, never having seen one. Drawing of the obvious conclusions has been left as an exercise for the reader.
Brilliant.
(And what better example of privilege than this: not only does he not have to suffer from death threats himself, he doesn’t even have to live in a world where they exist for others. Beautiful minds, indeed.)
By: By Rana on 2007 04 13
Not to mention that the death threat in question was not to an activist, but to a tech blogger. Kathy Sierra was threatened with rape and death for being a blogger about user interfaces. Sort of kills the whole “controversial bloggers” part of Kos’s offensive head-up-the-ass premise, doesn’t it?
By: By Deborah on 2007 04 13
On the good side, I got to read that October 10, 2005 entry again. Beautiful writing. I can remember reading it the first time and I can’t believe that was a year and a half ago.
By: By Charles on 2007 04 13
I’ve had my life threatened on my blog, on myspace, and by mail. And I’m not even an activist. I really doubt that Kos hasn’t received death threats. Whatever you think of him, he wields a lot of power. So, I’m sure some people loathe him enough to threaten his life. I bet he just doesn’t read his email.
By: By ted on 2007 04 13
If there is no apology from Kos by Monday then I’d damn well better see some front-pager resignations over there.
Condoning sexual harassment by professional peers because of not just one’s opinions, but one’s professional work has to be condemned. This wasn’t “controversial shit”. It was Kathy Sierra’s livelihood. These weren’t random trolls. They were her colleagues.
Kathy Sierra has had to cancel professional speaking appearances and, in her latest blog posting, has said she may have to give up her career altogether. Hardly overblown whining.
Kos front pagers - is this what you want to be associated with?
By: By Cassius Chaerea on 2007 04 13
over on echidne’s post about this, feminazi discusses her letters to advertizers on dkos, asking them why they financially support someone with so little regard to women. i suggest we all do the same.
By: By skippy on 2007 04 13
I’m down.
By: By belledame222 on 2007 04 13
“If there is no apology from Kos by Monday then I’d damn well better see some front-pager resignations over there.”
Not likely. Have you seen the comments on this at DKos? The whole Orange Echo chamber is just as bad.
I’m off Kos. And off all the big shots who have maintained a deafening silence on this. All the attacks on George Allen and Don Imus were so much political posturing. Kos has no principles at all.
By: By Alice Marshall on 2007 04 14
i can’t figure out how to cancel my account at Dkos. Not that I ever used it. When I do, if there is a way, I will.
By: By Nezua Limón Xolagrafik-Jonez on 2007 04 14
i can’t figure out how to cancel my account at dkos. not that i ever used it. when i do, if there is a way, i will.
you can’t. nobody can. once registered, your registration stays for eternity.
thus markos can point to his user numbers and say “look! over 100,000 (or however many it is by now) people are registered on my site!”
without pointing out that many, if not half, have stopped actively going to dkos on any sort of regular basis.
By: By skippy on 2007 04 14
Not to worry, just don’t give him any hits, read other blogs, tell your friends about other blogs.
One of the reasons I made a point of linking to everyone’s post on this on my blog was to reward good blogging. In the end, that is the only thing we can do.
but it really makes me sick, just plain sick
and I cannot help but notice that not one of the bloggers on Orange Echo Chamber’s blog roll has called him on it. (admittedly I have not checked the state blogs, but they are in a different class)
I am really dissappointed with Digby, but I am not a believer in telling others what they should be blogging about, just rewarding those who are doing good blogging.
By: By Alice Marshall on 2007 04 14
yeah, i’m really disappointed in digby, myself. and i was amazed at the deafening silence issuing forth from firedoglake.
one great unexpected consequence that i’ve found from refusing to read dkos anymore (since he dumped me off his blogroll) is the wide variety and depth of analysis i’ve discovered on other blogs.
you can learn everything a progressive needs to know without ever reading dkos, and, to a lesser extent, duncan.
By: By skippy on 2007 04 15
My dear marsupial friend, welcome to the new reality. I don’t ever, ever expect FDL, Duncan, MyDD, C&L, Digby, Greenwald, Aravosis and/or TalkLeft to criticize Markos - or each other - even if one of them clubbed baby seals for fun and profit. It will never happen, just as Kos will never apologize, and feminists will most likely let this one blow over, as attention turns to the next shiny object.
See, bloggers of color have seen this happen so many times with our issues that I think many of us just put the popcorn in the microwave and watch the excitement from the sidelines. It’s hard to get emotionally invested time and time again when you know it’s all words, and no change will ever ensue. As long as the big dogs have each other, and their advertising revenue, they don’t need us. In fact, we feed their coffers every time they stir the controversy pot. Granted, I’m not sure they’re smart enough to realize this, but I suspect some of the better entrepreneurs among the set have.
By: By MBW on 2007 04 15
you can’t. nobody can. once registered, your registration stays for eternity.
ah….i see. how very…unsettling.
As long as the big dogs have each other, and their advertising revenue, they don’t need us.
well…i don’t need them either. so i guess it all works out. :)
By: By Nezua Limón Xolagrafik-Jonez on 2007 04 23
I red the exerpt of your article VDare. If you honistly think 12 milion illegals are all standing around picking straberries for $20 a day then u are more of an idiot than the VDare folks are.
By: By The Infidel Sage on 2007 04 26
TIS, you forgot to say something about how I’m a cockroach scurrying after the light goes on. Or do you just save the eliminationist crap for your own blog?
By: By Chris Clarke on 2007 04 26
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